CDI/Coder Agree Rate

One of the many metrics my CDI team is evaluated on is CDI/Coder Agree Rate with the benchmark set at 80%.  My team is struggling to meet this benchmark and I am struggling to find any value in this metric.  I can see the value of having a discussion with the coder when you don't match (especially when the CDI has a higher DRG or has a completely different DRG for education) but I am struggling with the amount of time making sure you match the exact DRG when the chart is final coded.  We consistently achieve 65% agree rate with the coders but this includes cases that have subsequent documentation available (after the CDI looks at the case for the last time) either from subsequent notes or the discharge summary.  We are looking at >85% of the admissions to our facility with a 30% query rate.  My team is made up of RN's with many years experience both at the bedside and in CDI.  Thank you in advance for your opinions and knowledge.

Patty Vitasinski RN CCDS

Supervisor, Henry Ford West Bloomfield Hospital

pvitasi2@hfhs.org


Comments

  • We don't benchmark this. We do DRG reconciliation for mismatches and I think that's a more valuable use of time. It also incentivizes the CDI's to attempt to 'get it right' because then they have less retro work. But I personally don't want the CDI's spending a ridiculous amount of time getting a working DRG. It's just not my focus.


    Katy

  • We track our CDI/Coder DRG mismatch rate, the goal being <20% (>80% agree rate).  This gives us a metric for monitoring:
    1. Effectiveness of post-discharge CDI-Coder communication 
    2. Missed query opportunities & education

    The expectation is that if the Coder arrives at a different DRG than the CDI, they 'ping' the CDI Specialist via the electronic tool.  There is a space for notes, such as "pt had xyz procedure after last CDI review, moving the DRG to __" and "DC Summary ruled out abc diagnosis".  If these messages are addressed in real time, the codes & DRG can be revised and the 'mismatch' is resolved and counts toward the agree rate.
    If the mismatch is due to disagreement about sequencing/principal diagnosis choice or whether a diagnosis is clinically supported, further conversation can occur for educational purposes.  If agreement is not reached between CDI and Coding, the case stands as a mismatch to be reviewed by the CDI Lead & Coding Manager.
    As in other aspects of life, sometimes we must agree to disagree.  : )

    Jeanne McCorkle BSN, RN, CCDS
  • That sounds like a great system Jeanne!
  • Good morning,
    So my predicament today is that my coder coded an MCC that had been documented as ruled out.  Although she is to communicate with me if there is a change in MCC's /CC's, primary diagnosis and/or DRG shift,  she said she didn't realize it shifted the DRG (it was the only MCC)  and it ended up being billed without my knowledge that this occured.  These type of situations rarely happen, but maybe 2-3 times over the past 1 1/2 yrs since I started CDI.
    Although we have an on-site HIM manager and out-pt coders, our in-pt coding is outsourced. I am never sure what to do with this type of information, I took it to the HIM manager and she told me she wasn't going to "micro manage" the process for me and me and the coder need to to work out our system.  I thought she would want to know since if there becomes a denial on this case, she would likely be the one to get it.  She said it's too late to do anything about it anyways and I need to "let it go."
    Do any of you have a process in place or suggestions on what you would do in this kind of situation?
    Thanks!

  • Actually, I'd cite the AHIMA Code of Ethics, which has a link on our library.   It is not 'too late' to correct the data in order to report the true clinical picture of this patient.   I have rebilled, added and deleted many conditions over the years for many of reasons and this is common practice w/ Professional Coders and our responsibility.  The fact a contractor performed the coding does not abdicate the site from ensuring reported is consistent with documentation.
  • In these situations, I go directly to the coder (ours are also contracted, off-site). I find that they are generally more than happy to fix and rebill and its easier to deal with them directly. Just double check that they actually sent it to be rebilled ;-).

    It is NOT too late to fix it!


    Katy

  • our off site coders don't work that way I don't believe.  I agree that it's not too late and that it should be re-billed.  I need to have a better defined line of reporting here.  Do you all participate in a committee or any way that issues as such are reported out?  I was taken aback when the HIM manager responded like she did.
  • Do you mean that do you not have existing relationships with coders? if not, this is likely something to work on. Over the last few years we have worked with 5+ contract companies and always maintained relationships with the coders on our accounts. We reconciled DRG mismatches and we handle all the retro queries so there isn't really an option but even when we didn't do those things, we still could contact them with questions/concerns (and vice versa). We do work most closely with the coders themselves though. I very rarely have much contact with the HIM director and I do not think she would be very helpful because she is managing a large department, much more than the coders. However, we do have a coding manager. Currently ours is on-site but in the past those were remote as well but they would be the contact if I had issues in dealing with the coders. But I always go directly to the coders first. If you do not have an existing relationship with the coders, I would recommend establishing one. Ask for an email list, introduce yourself and explain your role. CDI and coding really need to work together to be effective.

    We don't have anything specific as far as a committee. Currently we do have a monthly educational meeting between both CDI and coding.

  • You've gotten some great advice from others but I was curious what your normal reconciliation process is. At one of our sites we usually try to have a once a month CDI/Coder collaboration meeting where we try to discuss issues, clinical and coding topics, charts that gave us all headaches (lol), etc..

    Thanks,

    Jeff

  • We have regular and weekly meetings.    I advocate strongly that there is not an option in regards to the deletion of a code that lacks support.  The standard protocol within the coding profession is to rebill and correct such a claim for the sake of data integrity.

    Thanks,  Paul

  • If a "coding" error is found, the account is rebilled if within the appropriate time frame but if we have a "missed opportunity" where CDI nor coding picked up on an issue to further clarify by way of a query, that becomes an educational opportunity and is not rebilled. I understand this is due to the fact that rebilling automatically flags an account for review (I am not sure if this is correct).

    Valerie Parent

  • Rebilling:  There are many different scenarios.  In the posed question, an MCC was coded, but upon further review, it was determined this sole MCC was not supported.  In this particular situation, a site must rebill for Compliance Purposes.   Regarding Rebilling for a HIGHER DRG,  the terms of the payers contract stipulate how to perform a rebill.  Example:  CMS provides that a site may rebill for a higher-weighted MSDRG, but must do so with 60 days of the payment on the original account.  Of course, the rebilled chart will be examined to ensure the revised and requested MSDRG is supported.  One may issue a query after Discharge of the patient, if as per local policy/procedure.
  • Great discussion everyone!  I'm glad we are not the only CDI team continually working on our relationship with the Coding team.  : )  
    Just as Paul said above, there are times when a re-bill is appropriate and ethical.
    proddy@clarionhospital.org, I'm sorry the HIM Director seemingly "blew you off".  I suppose she is willing to let it go because when the denial happens, she will plead 'no contest' and the error will correct itself (payment-wise).
    Jeanne McCorkle BSN, RN, CCDS
    Stanford Healthcare - ValleyCare
  • I appreciate all of your input.  I do have daily e mail communication with my off site coder.  We are a small rural teaching hospital, so there is one CDI and one in-patient coder.  The policy is that we discuss anything that she codes that would change my established DRG, primary diagnosis or would add/take away a CC or MCC.  Somehow she added the only MCC and said she didn't realize it was a DRG mismatch and finalized the account, not sure how that happened but we are all human.  I tried to hold the account when I saw what happened but it had already billed.  So, where do you all go from there?  Who would you contact in your facility then? 
    We do not currently have any meetings between CDI and anyone, kind of a lonely world, lol.  Thanks again for all of your advice and listening to me vent my frustrations.
  • Have you told the coder? I would just contact eh coder and they would fix the code and contact billing to re-bill.


    Katy

  • ::  Thanks, Jeanne  
  • There should be someone managing the coding process that understands the case needs to be rebilled.  If this work is being performed by a 3rd party, perhaps you'd contract the mgr of the offsite firm.  I agree w/ the sentiment this can be a complicated process and such issues will occur; but, there is a means to correct each claim.  If the coding mgr won't/can't revise, I'd suggest you record some type of memo for the record to memorialize your efforts to ensure compliant billing.

    Paul Evans, RHIA, CCDS, CCS, CCS-P

  • Thanks,
    I am meeting with administration (hopefully this week yet) to ask for better guidance in how they want situations like this handled.  I am following my policy and need to know what the next step is.
  • There should be someone managing the coding process that understands the case needs to be rebilled.  If this work is being performed by a 3rd party, perhaps you'd contract the mgr of the offsite firm.  I agree w/ the sentiment this can be a complicated process and such issues will occur; but, there is a means to correct each claim.  If the coding mgr won't/can't revise, I'd suggest you record some type of memo for the record to memorialize your efforts to ensure compliant billing.

    Paul Evans, RHIA, CCDS, CCS, CCS-P

    This is exactly how we approach the need for revising codes/rebilling. We have both onsite coders employed by the organization and off-site contracted coding staff. We communicate with our onsite coders one-on-one for discrepancies and escalate to the coding manager and/or outside auditor if needed. For the contracted coding staff, we contact the designated manager and copy our onsite coding manager (who is able to assist the contracted staff with the rebilling process as CDI does not participate in the rebill process).

    Jackie Touch
  • my CFO said he'd take care of it and speak with HIM manager.  He said of course it will need to be re-billed.  thanks for all your advice!
  • Awesome as always Paul.  Rebilling is a necessary part of the process--the goal being to 'Get it right!'
  • We have a CDI/Coding reconciliation excel sheet.  The CDI Team Leads validate that there is a discrepancy and place it on the excel sheet.  The Coding Leads then review and rebill or validate why the case wasn't rebilled on the excel sheet (located on a share drive).  If CDI and Coding still disagree, it is reviewed by Management.  Ideally,  there should be communication prior to bill, this is a process that takes place when the CDI performs daily reconciliation on all accounts queried.  It works pretty good. 
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