Mechanical Vent

Can anyone tell me if there is a coding clinic that indicates how to code a pt who is vented for protection of airway. Our physician indicated pt in acute respiratory failure but pt does not meet criteria of ARF. Chart indicated patient was electively intubated for airway protection. Any thoughts would be welcomed!!

Comments

  • edited May 2016
    This is a great question and one with which we have struggled.

    Here's my take on it: If the patient is intubated and placed on a T
    piece, obviously airway protection is the goal of the treatment.
    However, if a cycled vent is used, is the patient not in respiratory
    failure? If they are sedated (as the usually are) enough to depress
    their respiratory drive enough so that they cannot breathe on their own,
    that's respiratory failure in my book!

    Looking forward to other thoughts on the matter.

    Cathy Seluke, RN, BSN, ACM, CCDS
    Supervisor Clinical Documentation Compliance
    MaineGeneral Medical Center
    149 North Street
    Waterville, ME 04901
    Phone (207) 872-1796
    Fax (207) 872-1519
    Cathy.Seluke@mainegeneral.org




  • edited May 2016
    I'm with you Cathy. Besides, if the provider says respiratory failure, it is their opinion and that does count.

    Robert

    Robert S. Hodges, BSN, MSN, RN
    Clinical Documentation Improvement Specialist
    Aleda E. Lutz VAMC
    Mail Code 136
    1500 Weiss Street
    Saginaw MI 48602
     
    P: 989-497-2500 x13101
    F: 989-321-4912
    E: Robert.Hodges2@va.gov
     
    "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein 


  • edited May 2016
    I agree...well said, Cathy.



  • When we have patients intubated for airway protection we will query the physician. One of the choices we give is dependent on mechanical vent. This will code to V46.11.
    We do not expect them to document,nor will they document respiratory failure since the patient was not intubated due to respiratory failure.

    Our charts have been audited and this has not been an issue for us. The respiratory failure diagnosis being coded for a patient intubated for airway protection has been an issue.


  • edited May 2016
    I understand that a patient intubated for "airway protection" is not
    necessarily in respiratory failure, but what is the difference between
    "ventilator dependent" and respiratory failure? If you can't maintain
    gas exchange adequate to sustain your life, that's respiratory failure.



    Why would the reason for intubation matter? The patient may or may not
    progress to respiratory failure.



    The way I see it, airway protection and maintaining gas exchange are two
    different (albeit related) treatments.



    Cathy Seluke, RN, BSN, ACM, CCDS

    Supervisor Clinical Documentation Compliance

    MaineGeneral Medical Center

    149 North Street

    Waterville, ME 04901

    Phone (207) 872-1796

    Fax (207) 872-1519

    Cathy.Seluke@mainegeneral.org








  • The patient was not in respiratory failure when they were intubated.
    If a patient was not in respiratory failure and was intubated to protect their airway - such as a pt admitted with angioedema - they were not in respiratory distress at the time they were admitted but the physicians were concerned about airway protection and the patient agreed to be intubated.
    The patient is, at that point, dependent on the vent but they are not and were not in resp failure.
    I have had circumstances where pts were intubated for airway progression but failed extubation trials - some even requiring a trach - at that point our physicians will document respiratory failure.

    We have had these charts reviewed by outside auditors and, at times, have lost the resp failure as an MCC when the pt was intubated for airway protection.

    It's a very fine line.


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