Dx needed

I have a patient who was admitted for a hernia repair with mild obstruction. The surgery was delayed due to the patient taking Coumadin and the INR being within the therapeutic range of 2-3. The surgeon wanted the INR around 1 causing a delay in the surgery. Is there a diagnosis that would capture this?

Comments

  • I don’t think so because the pt was actually in the appropriate range. It's not considered an abnormal lab value.
    Are you looking for a dx to capture the extended length of stay?

    Kerry Seekircher, RN, BSN, CCDS, CDIP
    Documentation Specialist Supervisor
    Northern Westchester Hospital
    400 East Main Street
    Mount Kisco, NY 10549
    Email: kseekircher@nwhc.net
    Phone: 914-666-1243
    Fax: 914-666-1013




    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:22 PM
    To: Seekircher, Kerry
    Subject: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I have a patient who was admitted for a hernia repair with mild obstruction. The surgery was delayed due to the patient taking Coumadin and the INR being within the therapeutic range of 2-3. The surgeon wanted the INR around 1 causing a delay in the surgery. Is there a diagnosis that would capture this?
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  • Yes we are looking for a diagnosis that would explain the extended LOS. The lab values were within the normal/expected range. The patient also received Vit K daily for 2 days. I don't know of any dx to capture this extended LOS.

    Thanks,

    Krystle Bloodsworth, LVN
    Quality Improvement
    CDI Specialist
    St. Marks Medical Center
    979-242-2327

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 12:35 PM
    To: Krystle Bloodsworth
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I don’t think so because the pt was actually in the appropriate range. It's not considered an abnormal lab value.
    Are you looking for a dx to capture the extended length of stay?

    Kerry Seekircher, RN, BSN, CCDS, CDIP
    Documentation Specialist Supervisor
    Northern Westchester Hospital
    400 East Main Street
    Mount Kisco, NY 10549
    Email: kseekircher@nwhc.net
    Phone: 914-666-1243
    Fax: 914-666-1013




    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:22 PM
    To: Seekircher, Kerry
    Subject: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I have a patient who was admitted for a hernia repair with mild obstruction. The surgery was delayed due to the patient taking Coumadin and the INR being within the therapeutic range of 2-3. The surgeon wanted the INR around 1 causing a delay in the surgery. Is there a diagnosis that would capture this?
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  • Wouldnt the obsyruction capture the extended LOS?
    What was the LOS?


    Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

    -------- Original message --------From: CDI Talk Date:06/09/2015 12:46 PM (GMT-06:00) To: gwojo@wowway.com Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed
    Yes we are looking for a diagnosis that would explain the extended LOS. The lab values were within the normal/expected range. The patient also received Vit K daily for 2 days. I don't know of any dx to capture this extended LOS.

    Thanks,

    Krystle Bloodsworth, LVN
    Quality Improvement
    CDI Specialist
    St. Marks Medical Center
    979-242-2327

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 12:35 PM
    To: Krystle Bloodsworth
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I don’t think so because the pt was actually in the appropriate range. It's not considered an abnormal lab value.
    Are you looking for a dx to capture the extended length of stay?

    Kerry Seekircher, RN, BSN, CCDS, CDIP
    Documentation Specialist Supervisor
    Northern Westchester Hospital
    400 East Main Street
    Mount Kisco, NY 10549
    Email: kseekircher@nwhc.net
    Phone: 914-666-1243
    Fax: 914-666-1013




    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:22 PM
    To: Seekircher, Kerry
    Subject: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I have a patient who was admitted for a hernia repair with mild obstruction. The surgery was delayed due to the patient taking Coumadin and the INR being within the therapeutic range of 2-3. The surgeon wanted the INR around 1 causing a delay in the surgery. Is there a diagnosis that would capture this?
    ---
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    HCPro, Inc., 75 Sylvan Street, Danvers MA 01923

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  • The patient had a 5 day LOS and GMLOS is 2.1



    Krystle Bloodsworth, LVN

    Quality Improvement

    CDI Specialist

    St. Marks Medical Center

    979-242-2327



    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 12:51 PM
    To: Krystle Bloodsworth
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed



    Wouldnt the obsyruction capture the extended LOS?

    What was the LOS?





    Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone



    -------- Original message --------

    From: CDI Talk

    Date:06/09/2015 12:46 PM (GMT-06:00)

    To: gwojo@wowway.com

    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed



    Yes we are looking for a diagnosis that would explain the extended LOS. The lab values were within the normal/expected range. The patient also received Vit K daily for 2 days. I don't know of any dx to capture this extended LOS.

    Thanks,

    Krystle Bloodsworth, LVN
    Quality Improvement
    CDI Specialist
    St. Marks Medical Center
    979-242-2327

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 12:35 PM
    To: Krystle Bloodsworth
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I don’t think so because the pt was actually in the appropriate range. It's not considered an abnormal lab value.
    Are you looking for a dx to capture the extended length of stay?

    Kerry Seekircher, RN, BSN, CCDS, CDIP
    Documentation Specialist Supervisor
    Northern Westchester Hospital
    400 East Main Street
    Mount Kisco, NY 10549
    Email: kseekircher@nwhc.net
    Phone: 914-666-1243
    Fax: 914-666-1013




    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:22 PM
    To: Seekircher, Kerry
    Subject: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I have a patient who was admitted for a hernia repair with mild obstruction. The surgery was delayed due to the patient taking Coumadin and the INR being within the therapeutic range of 2-3. The surgeon wanted the INR around 1 causing a delay in the surgery. Is there a diagnosis that would capture this?
    ---
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    Copyright 2013
    HCPro, Inc., 75 Sylvan Street, Danvers MA 01923

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  • I wonder if this might be a case management issue. When I was in CM we had a term for these days which extended the LOS and at this time, I cannot recall it.

    Since the patient was actually admitted for the hernia repair with obstruction, I believe that would be your PDX.

    Lisa

    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:51 PM
    To: Romanello Angelisa
    Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    Wouldnt the obsyruction capture the extended LOS?
    What was the LOS?


    Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

    -------- Original message --------
    From: CDI Talk
    Date:06/09/2015 12:46 PM (GMT-06:00)
    To: gwojo@wowway.com
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    Yes we are looking for a diagnosis that would explain the extended LOS. The lab values were within the normal/expected range. The patient also received Vit K daily for 2 days. I don't know of any dx to capture this extended LOS.

    Thanks,

    Krystle Bloodsworth, LVN
    Quality Improvement
    CDI Specialist
    St. Marks Medical Center
    979-242-2327

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 12:35 PM
    To: Krystle Bloodsworth
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I don’t think so because the pt was actually in the appropriate range. It's not considered an abnormal lab value.
    Are you looking for a dx to capture the extended length of stay?

    Kerry Seekircher, RN, BSN, CCDS, CDIP
    Documentation Specialist Supervisor
    Northern Westchester Hospital
    400 East Main Street
    Mount Kisco, NY 10549
    Email: kseekircher@nwhc.net
    Phone: 914-666-1243
    Fax: 914-666-1013




    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:22 PM
    To: Seekircher, Kerry
    Subject: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I have a patient who was admitted for a hernia repair with mild obstruction. The surgery was delayed due to the patient taking Coumadin and the INR being within the therapeutic range of 2-3. The surgeon wanted the INR around 1 causing a delay in the surgery. Is there a diagnosis that would capture this?
    ---
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    Copyright 2013
    HCPro, Inc., 75 Sylvan Street, Danvers MA 01923

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    Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity.

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  • Hi!
     
    Have you coded the long-term usage of anticoagulant (v58.61)?   I think this may help to explain why the pt had a longer stay.

    Jolene File,RHIT,CCS,CPC-H,CCDS
    Documentation Improvement Specialist-Coder
    Hays Medical Center
    jolene.file@haysmed.com

    IMPORTANT: This communication contains information from Hays Medical Center which may be confidential and privileged.  If it appears that the communication was addressed or sent to you in error, you may not use or copy this communication or any information contained therein, and you may not disclose this communication or the information contained therein to anyone else.  In such circumstances, please notify me immediately by reply email or by telephone.  Thank you.

    ----- Original Message -----

    From: "CDI Talk"
    To: "jolene file"
    Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 12:57:06 PM
    Subject: RE:  RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed



    I wonder if this might be a case management issue. When I was in CM we had a term for these days which extended the LOS and at this time, I cannot recall it.

     

    Since the patient was actually admitted for the hernia repair with obstruction, I believe that would be your PDX.

     

    Lisa

     


    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:51 PM
    To: Romanello Angelisa
    Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed


     


    Wouldnt the obsyruction capture the extended LOS?


    What was the LOS?


     


     


    Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


     


    -------- Original message --------


    From: CDI Talk


    Date:06/09/2015 12:46 PM (GMT-06:00)


    To: gwojo@wowway.com


    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed


     


    Yes we are looking for a diagnosis that would explain the extended LOS. The lab values were within the normal/expected range. The patient also received Vit K daily for 2 days. I don't know of any dx to capture this extended LOS.

    Thanks,

    Krystle Bloodsworth, LVN
    Quality Improvement
    CDI Specialist
    St. Marks Medical Center
    979-242-2327

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [ mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com ]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 12:35 PM
    To: Krystle Bloodsworth
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I don’t think so because the pt was actually in the appropriate range. It's not considered an abnormal lab value.
    Are you looking for a dx to capture the extended length of stay?

    Kerry Seekircher, RN, BSN, CCDS, CDIP
    Documentation Specialist Supervisor
    Northern Westchester Hospital
    400 East Main Street
    Mount Kisco, NY 10549
    Email: kseekircher@nwhc.net
    Phone: 914-666-1243
    Fax: 914-666-1013




    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [ mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com ]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:22 PM
    To: Seekircher, Kerry
    Subject: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I have a patient who was admitted for a hernia repair with mild obstruction. The surgery was delayed due to the patient taking Coumadin and the INR being within the therapeutic range of 2-3. The surgeon wanted the INR around 1 causing a delay in the surgery. Is there a diagnosis that would capture this?
    ---
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  • Krystle, I cannot find a thing that would extend the LOS. Wish I vould help.


    Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

    -------- Original message --------From: CDI Talk Date:06/09/2015 12:54 PM (GMT-06:00) To: gwojo@wowway.com Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed
    The patient had a 5 day LOS and GMLOS is 2.1

    Krystle Bloodsworth, LVN
    Quality Improvement
    CDI Specialist
    St. Marks Medical Center
    979-242-2327

    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 12:51 PM
    To: Krystle Bloodsworth
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    Wouldnt the obsyruction capture the extended LOS?
    What was the LOS?


    Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


    -------- Original message --------
    From: CDI Talk
    Date:06/09/2015 12:46 PM (GMT-06:00)
    To: gwojo@wowway.com
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    Yes we are looking for a diagnosis that would explain the extended LOS. The lab values were within the normal/expected range. The patient also received Vit K daily for 2 days. I don't know of any dx to capture this extended LOS.

    Thanks,

    Krystle Bloodsworth, LVN
    Quality Improvement
    CDI Specialist
    St. Marks Medical Center
    979-242-2327

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 12:35 PM
    To: Krystle Bloodsworth
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I don’t think so because the pt was actually in the appropriate range. It's not considered an abnormal lab value.
    Are you looking for a dx to capture the extended length of stay?

    Kerry Seekircher, RN, BSN, CCDS, CDIP
    Documentation Specialist Supervisor
    Northern Westchester Hospital
    400 East Main Street
    Mount Kisco, NY 10549
    Email: kseekircher@nwhc.net
    Phone: 914-666-1243
    Fax: 914-666-1013




    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:22 PM
    To: Seekircher, Kerry
    Subject: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I have a patient who was admitted for a hernia repair with mild obstruction. The surgery was delayed due to the patient taking Coumadin and the INR being within the therapeutic range of 2-3. The surgeon wanted the INR around 1 causing a delay in the surgery. Is there a diagnosis that would capture this?
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  • Definitely think the hernia with obstruction would be the principal. I look hard at the chart to see if there were delays in care like slow return of bowel function postoperatively, uncontrolled pain, something out of the norm. Even if these issues are not reportable (codeable), they can be documented as delays in care which would show the reason for the extended length of stay. Our CM department reports these on each case.

    Hope this helps.

    Syndi Hudson, RN, CCDS,CCM
    CHRISTUS Santa Rosa New Braunfels
    CDI Specialist
    cynthia.hudson@christushealth.org
    830-643-6116 (Office)
    830-643-5139 (Fax)
    [Description: CCDS_pin_1inch]
    “We are His hands”. Isaiah 64:8

    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 12:57 PM
    To: Hudson, Cynthia
    Subject: RE: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I wonder if this might be a case management issue. When I was in CM we had a term for these days which extended the LOS and at this time, I cannot recall it.

    Since the patient was actually admitted for the hernia repair with obstruction, I believe that would be your PDX.

    Lisa

    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:51 PM
    To: Romanello Angelisa
    Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    Wouldnt the obsyruction capture the extended LOS?
    What was the LOS?


    Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

    -------- Original message --------
    From: CDI Talk
    Date:06/09/2015 12:46 PM (GMT-06:00)
    To: gwojo@wowway.com
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    Yes we are looking for a diagnosis that would explain the extended LOS. The lab values were within the normal/expected range. The patient also received Vit K daily for 2 days. I don't know of any dx to capture this extended LOS.

    Thanks,

    Krystle Bloodsworth, LVN
    Quality Improvement
    CDI Specialist
    St. Marks Medical Center
    979-242-2327

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 12:35 PM
    To: Krystle Bloodsworth
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I don’t think so because the pt was actually in the appropriate range. It's not considered an abnormal lab value.
    Are you looking for a dx to capture the extended length of stay?

    Kerry Seekircher, RN, BSN, CCDS, CDIP
    Documentation Specialist Supervisor
    Northern Westchester Hospital
    400 East Main Street
    Mount Kisco, NY 10549
    Email: kseekircher@nwhc.net
    Phone: 914-666-1243
    Fax: 914-666-1013




    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:22 PM
    To: Seekircher, Kerry
    Subject: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I have a patient who was admitted for a hernia repair with mild obstruction. The surgery was delayed due to the patient taking Coumadin and the INR being within the therapeutic range of 2-3. The surgeon wanted the INR around 1 causing a delay in the surgery. Is there a diagnosis that would capture this?
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  • You can use V58.83 and V58.61. This will not change the DRG but it does help explain the longer LOS. There are a couple of CC's on this. (Sorry I always cite CC but it is my Bible!)

    The ones specifically related to this are:
    CC 2002 3rd Qtr Pages 14-15 (Discontinuation of Coumadin therapy prior to colonoscopy)
    CC 2002 3rd Qtr page 13 (Discontinuation of anticoagulant to perform procedure)

    If you don't have access to Coding Clinic, let me know and I will provide the actual details.

    Hope this helps.

    Sharon Salinas, CCS
    Health Information Management
    Barlow Respiratory Hospital
    2000 Stadium Way, Los Angeles CA 90026
    Tel: 213-250-4200 ext 3336
    FAX: 213-202-6490
    ssalinas@barlow2000.org

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 10:22 AM
    To: Salinas, Sharon
    Subject: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I have a patient who was admitted for a hernia repair with mild obstruction. The surgery was delayed due to the patient taking Coumadin and the INR being within the therapeutic range of 2-3. The surgeon wanted the INR around 1 causing a delay in the surgery. Is there a diagnosis that would capture this?
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  • Lisa the term for extended but unnecessary LOS is called ‘avoidable days’. We categorize them and use the data to work with the physician or department that is lengthening the patient’s stay. I too used to work in CM.
    Mary L. Snook RN-BC
    Clinical Documentation Improvement Specialist
    Fairfield Medical Center
    740-689-4443



    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 2:27 PM
    To: Mary Snook
    Subject: RE: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    Definitely think the hernia with obstruction would be the principal. I look hard at the chart to see if there were delays in care like slow return of bowel function postoperatively, uncontrolled pain, something out of the norm. Even if these issues are not reportable (codeable), they can be documented as delays in care which would show the reason for the extended length of stay. Our CM department reports these on each case.

    Hope this helps.

    Syndi Hudson, RN, CCDS,CCM
    CHRISTUS Santa Rosa New Braunfels
    CDI Specialist
    cynthia.hudson@christushealth.org
    830-643-6116 (Office)
    830-643-5139 (Fax)
    [cid:image001.jpg@01D0A385.4A2F0E00]
    “We are His hands”. Isaiah 64:8

    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 12:57 PM
    To: Hudson, Cynthia
    Subject: RE: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I wonder if this might be a case management issue. When I was in CM we had a term for these days which extended the LOS and at this time, I cannot recall it.

    Since the patient was actually admitted for the hernia repair with obstruction, I believe that would be your PDX.

    Lisa

    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:51 PM
    To: Romanello Angelisa
    Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    Wouldnt the obsyruction capture the extended LOS?
    What was the LOS?


    Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

    -------- Original message --------
    From: CDI Talk
    Date:06/09/2015 12:46 PM (GMT-06:00)
    To: gwojo@wowway.com
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    Yes we are looking for a diagnosis that would explain the extended LOS. The lab values were within the normal/expected range. The patient also received Vit K daily for 2 days. I don't know of any dx to capture this extended LOS.

    Thanks,

    Krystle Bloodsworth, LVN
    Quality Improvement
    CDI Specialist
    St. Marks Medical Center
    979-242-2327

    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 12:35 PM
    To: Krystle Bloodsworth
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I don’t think so because the pt was actually in the appropriate range. It's not considered an abnormal lab value.
    Are you looking for a dx to capture the extended length of stay?

    Kerry Seekircher, RN, BSN, CCDS, CDIP
    Documentation Specialist Supervisor
    Northern Westchester Hospital
    400 East Main Street
    Mount Kisco, NY 10549
    Email: kseekircher@nwhc.net
    Phone: 914-666-1243
    Fax: 914-666-1013




    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 1:22 PM
    To: Seekircher, Kerry
    Subject: [cdi_talk] Dx needed

    I have a patient who was admitted for a hernia repair with mild obstruction. The surgery was delayed due to the patient taking Coumadin and the INR being within the therapeutic range of 2-3. The surgeon wanted the INR around 1 causing a delay in the surgery. Is there a diagnosis that would capture this?
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