ETOH withdrawal

I was reviewing this coding clinic:

Coding Clinic, Second Quarter ICD-10 2015 Page: 15 Effective with discharges: July 6, 2015
Question:
The Index entry for Alcohol, withdrawal, leads to code F10.239, Alcohol dependence with withdrawal. However, only alcohol abuse is documented by the physician. In ICD-10-CM, how is alcohol abuse with alcohol withdrawal coded?
Answer:
In ICD-10-CM, alcohol withdrawal is categorized as alcohol dependence, by default. The classification provides a combination code for alcohol dependence with alcohol withdrawal. Therefore query the provider for clarification, when alcohol abuse and alcohol withdrawal are both documented in the health record.

Are you guys routinely querying for this? And if so, do you have a sample query?

Thanks!

Katy Good, RN, BSN, CCDS, CCS
Clinical Documentation Program Coordinator
Flagstaff Medical Center
Kathryn.Good@nahealth.com
Cell: 928.814.9404

Comments

  • Alrighty, no one responded to this last time but I am trying again;-). I am building a query template for this. To me, the root of the issue is that we need 'dependence' documented. Do you agree? If so, I am thinking about just querying for that. Which seems silly because if they are withdrawing they are dependent. Thoughts???

    [cid:image001.png@01D17BB0.A91B3C50]


    Or... am I mis-interpreting the coding clinic entirely? Set me straight!


    Katy Good, RN, BSN, CCDS, CCS
    Clinical Documentation Program Coordinator
    Flagstaff Medical Center
    Kathryn.Good@nahealth.com
    Cell: 928.814.9404

    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 8:29 AM
    To: Kathryn Good
    Subject: [cdi_talk] ETOH withdrawal

    I was reviewing this coding clinic:

    Coding Clinic, Second Quarter ICD-10 2015 Page: 15 Effective with discharges: July 6, 2015
    Question:
    The Index entry for Alcohol, withdrawal, leads to code F10.239, Alcohol dependence with withdrawal. However, only alcohol abuse is documented by the physician. In ICD-10-CM, how is alcohol abuse with alcohol withdrawal coded?
    Answer:
    In ICD-10-CM, alcohol withdrawal is categorized as alcohol dependence, by default. The classification provides a combination code for alcohol dependence with alcohol withdrawal. Therefore query the provider for clarification, when alcohol abuse and alcohol withdrawal are both documented in the health record.

    Are you guys routinely querying for this? And if so, do you have a sample query?

    Thanks!

    Katy Good, RN, BSN, CCDS, CCS
    Clinical Documentation Program Coordinator
    Flagstaff Medical Center
    Kathryn.Good@nahealth.com
    Cell: 928.814.9404




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  • Thanks for your response Christina,

    It is my understanding that Alcohol dependence is physical or psychological dependence on alcohol. Though there other indicators of dependence, alcohol withdrawal is a pretty significant finding as it shows physical dependence on alcohol. I believe in the DSM IV you need more than one criteria to officially dx dependence. Things like tolerance or continues use despite harm, things like that. I have occasionally seen people with alcohol withdrawal occur in people we would not typically have thought of as dependent. We occasionally see this with older patients with scheduled surgeries why ‘report’ they drink 1-2 drinks a day prior to surgery, are functional, and alcohol doesn’t seem to have otherwise impacted their life much. But generally, we see withdrawal in our alcoholic, homeless, population. Yes, people often abuse alcohol and are not dependent. But those people do not generally withdraw.

    I would love to hear other opinions on this as well. Our coders will not currently code withdrawal without documentation of dependence.

    Thanks!

    Katy Good, RN, BSN, CCDS, CCS
    Clinical Documentation Program Coordinator
    Flagstaff Medical Center
    Kathryn.Good@nahealth.com
    Cell: 928.814.9404

    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 9:16 PM
    To: Kathryn Good
    Subject: Re: [cdi_talk] ETOH withdrawal

    " If their withdrawing they are dependent" is not correct. Dependent to me means addicted or alcoholic. Someone can be abusing and not be addicted or dependent. Dependent is a serious labeling of a patient. I would think that a provider would be very cautious in using that term on a patient.

    Christina Rivera, RN,BSN,CCDS


    Sent from my iPhone

    On Mar 11, 2016, at 6:13 PM, CDI Talk wrote:
    Alrighty, no one responded to this last time but I am trying again;-). I am building a query template for this. To me, the root of the issue is that we need ‘dependence’ documented. Do you agree? If so, I am thinking about just querying for that. Which seems silly because if they are withdrawing they are dependent. Thoughts???




    Or… am I mis-interpreting the coding clinic entirely? Set me straight!


    Katy Good, RN, BSN, CCDS, CCS
    Clinical Documentation Program Coordinator
    Flagstaff Medical Center
    Kathryn.Good@nahealth.com
    Cell: 928.814.9404

    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 8:29 AM
    To: Kathryn Good
    Subject: [cdi_talk] ETOH withdrawal

    I was reviewing this coding clinic:

    Coding Clinic, Second Quarter ICD-10 2015 Page: 15 Effective with discharges: July 6, 2015
    Question:
    The Index entry for Alcohol, withdrawal, leads to code F10.239, Alcohol dependence with withdrawal. However, only alcohol abuse is documented by the physician. In ICD-10-CM, how is alcohol abuse with alcohol withdrawal coded?
    Answer:
    In ICD-10-CM, alcohol withdrawal is categorized as alcohol dependence, by default. The classification provides a combination code for alcohol dependence with alcohol withdrawal. Therefore query the provider for clarification, when alcohol abuse and alcohol withdrawal are both documented in the health record.

    Are you guys routinely querying for this? And if so, do you have a sample query?

    Thanks!

    Katy Good, RN, BSN, CCDS, CCS
    Clinical Documentation Program Coordinator
    Flagstaff Medical Center
    Kathryn.Good@nahealth.com
    Cell: 928.814.9404




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  • one of the requirements for diagnosis of alcohol withdrawal according to the DSM V is "cessation of (or reduction in) alcohol use that has been heavy and prolonged". That is alcohol dependence. Episodic alcohol use or abuse is not likely to cause withdrawal. I'm not a coder, but why is the explicit documentation of dependence required to diagnose withdrawal? I am sure our coders do not require that. You can't code withdrawal any other way can you?

    I'm new to this forum so I am interested to learn. :)

    Holly Simpson MD
    Case Management Medical Advisor | Community Health Network
    1500 North Ritter Ave. | Indianapolis, IN 46219
    317.355.4038 | ecommunity.com
  • Hi Holly,

    This is what I have come up with. I believe the Coding clinic I mentioned was mis-interpreted to mean that when MD’s are documenting ‘withdrawal’ that they also need to document ‘dependency’ in order for them to code the CC; F10.239 Alcohol dependence with withdrawal, unspecified. However, with close reading of the CC what it appears to be saying is that by ‘default’ withdrawal = dependency. If the provider only states alcohol withdrawal then F10.239 should be coded. However, if the provider documents alcohol use or alcohol abuse and alcohol withdrawal, this is a problem and a query is needed.
    This is because in coding substance abuse/use there is a hierarchy regarding Use/Abuse/dependency. So the issue is that if withdrawal = dependency and then the provider also says ‘abuse’, this is a discrepancy. ‘abuse’ vs ‘dependence’. So a query is needed to clear up the discrepancy.

    I hope that makes sense. I discussed it further with our coding manager and we are in agreement.

    I am (still) open to other interpretations :)

    Katy Good, RN, BSN, CCDS, CCS
    Clinical Documentation Program Coordinator
    Flagstaff Medical Center
    Kathryn.Good@nahealth.com
    Cell: 928.814.9404


    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 11:42 AM
    To: Kathryn Good
    Subject: RE:[cdi_talk] ETOH withdrawal

    one of the requirements for diagnosis of alcohol withdrawal according to the DSM V is "cessation of (or reduction in) alcohol use that has been heavy and prolonged". That is alcohol dependence. Episodic alcohol use or abuse is not likely to cause withdrawal. I'm not a coder, but why is the explicit documentation of dependence required to diagnose withdrawal? I am sure our coders do not require that. You can't code withdrawal any other way can you?

    I'm new to this forum so I am interested to learn. :)

    Holly Simpson MD
    Case Management Medical Advisor | Community Health Network
    1500 North Ritter Ave. | Indianapolis, IN 46219
    317.355.4038 | ecommunity.com
    ---
    CDI Talk is offered for networking purposes. For official rules and regulations related to documentation and coding, please refer to your regulatory source.

    You are receiving this message as a member of CDI Talk as: kathryn.good@nahealth.com If you would like to be removed from CDI Talk, please send a blank email to leave-cdi_talk-12649561.a6bbaf3538c19e934e5136fbd051a6b1@hcprotalk.com
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  • Great Info Katy! Thanks

    Vanessa Falkoff RN
    Clinical Documentation Improvement Coordinator
    University Medical Center of Southern Nevada
    1800 W Charleston Blvd
    Las Vegas, NV
    vanessa.falkoff@umcsn.com
    office 702-383-7322

    Compassion * Accountability * Respect * Integrity


    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 12:41 PM
    To: Vanessa Falkoff
    Subject: RE: RE:[cdi_talk] ETOH withdrawal

    Hi Holly,

    This is what I have come up with. I believe the Coding clinic I mentioned was mis-interpreted to mean that when MD’s are documenting ‘withdrawal’ that they also need to document ‘dependency’ in order for them to code the CC; F10.239 Alcohol dependence with withdrawal, unspecified. However, with close reading of the CC what it appears to be saying is that by ‘default’ withdrawal = dependency. If the provider only states alcohol withdrawal then F10.239 should be coded. However, if the provider documents alcohol use or alcohol abuse and alcohol withdrawal, this is a problem and a query is needed.
    This is because in coding substance abuse/use there is a hierarchy regarding Use/Abuse/dependency. So the issue is that if withdrawal = dependency and then the provider also says ‘abuse’, this is a discrepancy. ‘abuse’ vs ‘dependence’. So a query is needed to clear up the discrepancy.

    I hope that makes sense. I discussed it further with our coding manager and we are in agreement.

    I am (still) open to other interpretations :)

    Katy Good, RN, BSN, CCDS, CCS
    Clinical Documentation Program Coordinator Flagstaff Medical Center Kathryn.Good@nahealth.com
    Cell: 928.814.9404


    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 11:42 AM
    To: Kathryn Good
    Subject: RE:[cdi_talk] ETOH withdrawal

    one of the requirements for diagnosis of alcohol withdrawal according to the DSM V is "cessation of (or reduction in) alcohol use that has been heavy and prolonged". That is alcohol dependence. Episodic alcohol use or abuse is not likely to cause withdrawal. I'm not a coder, but why is the explicit documentation of dependence required to diagnose withdrawal? I am sure our coders do not require that. You can't code withdrawal any other way can you?

    I'm new to this forum so I am interested to learn. :)

    Holly Simpson MD
    Case Management Medical Advisor | Community Health Network
    1500 North Ritter Ave. | Indianapolis, IN 46219
    317.355.4038 | ecommunity.com
    ---
    CDI Talk is offered for networking purposes. For official rules and regulations related to documentation and coding, please refer to your regulatory source.

    You are receiving this message as a member of CDI Talk as: kathryn.good@nahealth.com If you would like to be removed from CDI Talk, please send a blank email to leave-cdi_talk-12649561.a6bbaf3538c19e934e5136fbd051a6b1@hcprotalk.com
    ---
    Copyright 2013
    HCPro, Inc., 75 Sylvan Street, Danvers MA 01923 This message has been scanned and no issues were detected.
    Do not trust links or attachments and do not divulge sensitive information upon email request.

    To report this email as SPAM, please forward it to spam@websense.com

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    CDI Talk is offered for networking purposes. For official rules and regulations related to documentation and coding, please refer to your regulatory source.

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    Copyright 2013
    HCPro, Inc., 75 Sylvan Street, Danvers MA 01923
  • I agree they need a query when both are documented, but shouldn't have to if only withdrawal is. That seems like the specific situation the coding clinic is referring to.

    Holly Simpson MD
    Case Management Medical Advisor | Community Health Network
    1500 North Ritter Ave. |Indianapolis, IN 46219
    Ph. 317.355.4038 |eCommunity.com
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