patient problem list

Hello All!
Next question: Do any of you currently populate the patient problem list at your facility? And, do any coding departments code from the patient problem list? We are attempting to see if the CDS's populate the list, and the providers have to sign off as to wether they agree or disagree, what conflicts this will cause.

Thank You,
Susan Tiffany RN, CCDS
Supervisor Clinical Documentation Program

Comments

  • Coders used to do it here, but no longer. Only providers are authorized to update the patients problem list. The issue was that a "non-clinical" person was making a clinical determination.

    Robert

    Robert S. Hodges, BSN, MSN, RN
    Clinical Documentation Improvement Specialist
    Aleda E. Lutz VAMC
    Mail Code 136
    1500 Weiss Street
    Saginaw MI 48602
     
    P: 989-497-2500 x13101
    F: 989-321-4912
    E: Robert.Hodges2@va.gov
     
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    -----Original Message-----
    From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 11:34 AM
    To: Hodges, Robert
    Subject: [cdi_talk] patient problem list

    Hello All!
    Next question: Do any of you currently populate the patient problem list at your facility? And, do any coding departments code from the patient problem list? We are attempting to see if the CDS's populate the list, and the providers have to sign off as to wether they agree or disagree, what conflicts this will cause.

    Thank You,
    Susan Tiffany RN, CCDS
    Supervisor Clinical Documentation Program
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    CDI Talk is offered for networking purposes. For official rules and regulations related to documentation and coding, please refer to your regulatory source.

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  • edited May 2016


    We have been asked to see if, as RN's, we populated the problem list with
    diagnosis we see in the record, and the providers reviewed and signed off
    on them, if this would pose a conflict. I like the idea, as long as it
    clearly states, which it does, the credentials of the person entering
    data.
    Thank You,
    Susan Tiffany RN, CCDS
    Supervisor Clinical Documentation Program
    Guthrie Healthcare System

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
    didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
    away from safe harbor.Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
    Discover." Mark Twain







  • edited May 2016
    Just curious if you have an electronic record here and the patient
    problem list is part of that record. We have that here and our problem
    lists are terrible because of duplication, for example chronic kidney
    disease may be in there three times under three different names. We
    have made providers accountable for maintaining the patient problem list
    since they are the primary care providers.



    My personal opinion is that even as a RN I would not presume to add to a
    patient's problem list unless it was within my scope of practice. I may
    ask a provider as a CDIS, and have, if they could review information and
    if appropriate add it to the problem list, but it's not something I
    would do even if I had access to do it. Like most things in life, the
    provider is the one ultimately accountable for what is in the patient's
    medical record.



    Robert



    Robert S. Hodges, BSN, MSN, RN

    Clinical Documentation Improvement Specialist

    Aleda E. Lutz VAMC

    Mail Code 136

    1500 Weiss Street

    Saginaw MI 48602



    P: 989-497-2500 x13101

    F: 989-321-4912

    E: Robert.Hodges2@va.gov




  • edited May 2016
    Review the ppt (2010 Conference: Care Documentation as a Clinical Process, specifically slides 15 to 17) in the ACDIS forms and tools library from last year's conference, I think part of their (UWMC) process involves this. The concept advanced is that the RNDS (RN Documentation Specialist) is directly incorporated into the rounding clinical team and participates with the treating team's activities, considerations and documentation. Not fully clear on the details, so can't comment further. This process is being advanced as part of a higher level CDI process and model and I believe was developed at UWMC in partnership with JA Thomas and Associates consulting (I believe they call there product Clintegris).

    The ppt also has some very interesting and exciting process and info as far as quality, safety and core measures.

    We do not populate the problem list either.
    Our coders will code from the problem list (since it generally is included in PN, HP, DCS) as long as there is evidence of tx, monitoring, etc. (the requirements to capture something as a valid ODX). A caveat, providers don't always keep the problem list up to date, so there are instances of an acute diagnosis (now resolved) that is carried over from a previous encounter, or of a dx that is recorded in the list as acute on chronic, but all tx and evidence points to chronic only.

    Don

    >>> "CDI Talk" 3/8/2011 11:37 AM >>>
    Coders used to do it here, but no longer. Only providers are authorized to update the patients problem list. The issue was that a "non-clinical" person was making a clinical determination.

    Robert

    Robert S. Hodges, BSN, MSN, RN
    Clinical Documentation Improvement Specialist
    Aleda E. Lutz VAMC
    Mail Code 136
    1500 Weiss Street
    Saginaw MI 48602

    P: 989-497-2500 x13101
    F: 989-321-4912
    E: Robert.Hodges2@va.gov


  • edited May 2016
    We are currently a hybrid facility, more electronic than not. I share your
    concerns with scope of practice, but I also agree with my providers when
    they say that they want to have an accurate problem list, just don't have
    time. If we could suggest diagnosis, "clean up " duplications, and
    possible, in the future, use the problem list as a query .... I agree
    completely that the provider has ultimate, final say on diagnosis's, or
    difficulty is getting the correct verbiage out of them now .... would this
    be the way to bridge the gap?
    Thank You,
    Susan Tiffany RN, CCDS
    Supervisor Clinical Documentation Program
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
    didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
    away from safe harbor.Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
    Discover." Mark Twain







  • edited May 2016
    At our facility, there have been physicians who have employeed RN's (not
    advanced practice) to work as 'scribes'. The RN rounds with the
    physician, examines the patients themselves, reviews records, etc. and
    then has a detailed conversation with the physician about findings,
    plans, etc. The nurse prepares HP, PN, etc that the physician then
    reviews and cosigns.

    In a similar way, I can see some space for a role for a non-physician
    to assist to maintain and up date the problem list at the SPECIFIC
    direction of the physician. My concern is for the perception of all
    this when the role is filled by a CDS member, that there may be a drift
    away from specific direction toward the risk of perceived leading.
    Thus, I am resistant to the idea without extremely strong measures in
    place. We all know there are physicians who pay less than complete &
    careful attention to their responses and what they sign off in an
    electronic record.

    I wish we all had an easy, effective answer to this problem. Seems to
    me we are all still searching for improved answers.

    Don


  • The CDI nor the Coders add or code from the problem list. However, there is a "problem list" that is generated from what the CDI's code.

    This is a list of what has been coded and is seen by providers when they use this particular software- which most do- but is not what I would consider anfficial PL. That function has never been used.

    NBrunson, RHIA,CCDS

    CDI Talk wrote:

    >Hello All!
    >Next question: Do any of you currently populate the patient problem list at your facility? And, do any coding departments code from the patient problem list? We are attempting to see if the CDS's populate the list, and the providers have to sign off as to wether they agree or disagree, what conflicts this will cause.
    >
    >Thank You,
    >Susan Tiffany RN, CCDS
    >Supervisor Clinical Documentation Program
    >---
    >CDI Talk is offered for networking purposes. For official rules and regulations related to documentation and coding, please refer to your regulatory source.
    >
    >You are receiving this message as a member of CDI Talk as: paxneros@comcast.net
    >If you would like to be removed from CDI Talk, please send a blank email to
    >leave-cdi_talk-12570479.a1577b6c64e12fd218b1dd53efa7aa7f@hcprotalk.com
    >---
    >Copyright 2010
    >HCPro, Inc., 200 Hoods Lane, Marblehead, MA 01945
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