RE: Septicemia vs. sepsis

Septicemia is just a more general term than bacteremia and by definition
is more serious. The MedlinePlus Medical Dictionary defines septicemia
as "invasion of the bloodstream by virulent microorganisms (as bacteria,
viruses, or fungi) from a focus of infection that is accompanied by
acute systemic illness - called also blood poisoning". Bacteremia is
defined as "the usually transient presence of bacteria in the blood."



I would not stop querying for septicemia, but it may meet the criteria
of Sepsis also since the conditions are similar though the definitions
are different.



Robert



Robert S. Hodges, BSN, MSN, RN, CCDS

Clinical Documentation Improvement Specialist

Aleda E. Lutz VAMC

Mail Code 136

1500 Weiss Street

Saginaw MI 48602



P: 989-497-2500 x13101

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From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 4:32 PM
To: Hodges, Robert
Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Septecemia vs sepsis



So are we encouraging the docs to not even document septicemia?





________________________________

From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 7:06 AM
To: Stewart, Patti
Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Septecemia vs sepsis



Here is my bacteremia/SIRS/Sepsis query. Hope it helps. You may also
want to document if the Lactic Acid level is elevated and ask the
clinical significance of that.



Robert



Robert S. Hodges, BSN, MSN, RN, CCDS

Clinical Documentation Improvement Specialist

Aleda E. Lutz VAMC

Mail Code 136

1500 Weiss Street

Saginaw MI 48602



P: 989-497-2500 x13101

F: 989-321-4912

E: Robert.Hodges2@va.gov



"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the
difference between lightning and the lightning bug." Samuel "Mark Twain"
Clemens



"This email is intended only for the use of the person or office to
which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
confidential, or protected by law. All others are hereby notified that
the receipt of this email does not waive any applicable privilege or
exemption for disclosure and that any dissemination, distribution, or
copying of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this
email in error, please notify this office immediately at the telephone
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From: CDI Talk [mailto:cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:10 PM
To: Hodges, Robert
Subject: [cdi_talk] Septecemia vs sepsis



I need to leave a query for a physician regarding the diagnosis of
Strep. Septicemia. This patient came in with fatigue and cellulitis of
the arm. The blood cultures were done on admit, and the following day
they were positive and the diagnosis of Strep.Septicemia was made.



I am trying to figure out how to word the query asking him if the
patient had sepsis.



Any help would be appreciated.



Thanks,

Patti


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Comments

  • edited May 2016
    Bacteremia codes to a UTI which is not as severe as sepsis. Just something to think about.



  • edited May 2016
    Bacteremia should never code to a UTI since it is presence of bacteria
    in the blood, not the urine. A UTI is 599.0. Bacteremia is 790.7.



    I think you meant to say bacteriuria which codes to 791.7, but people
    can have asymptomatic bacteriuria that is not treated. Bacteriuria does
    not automatically mean a UTI.



    Robert



    Robert S. Hodges, BSN, MSN, RN, CCDS

    Clinical Documentation Improvement Specialist

    Aleda E. Lutz VAMC

    Mail Code 136

    1500 Weiss Street

    Saginaw MI 48602



    P: 989-497-2500 x13101

    F: 989-321-4912

    E: Robert.Hodges2@va.gov




  • I learned yesterday that in ICD-10 septicemia will code as bacteremia. That is an additional reason to begin to query physicians for sepsis rather than septicemia when it is appropriate.

    Shelia Bullock, RN, BSN, MBA, CCM, CCDS
    Director, Clinical Documentation Improvement
    University of Mississippi Health Care
    2500 North State Street
    Room H139
    Jackson, MS 39216
    T: 601-815-3079 P: 601-815-3079 F: 601-815-9505
    sabullock@umc.edu
    umhc.com


    ________________________________
    From: CDI Talk [cdi_talk@hcprotalk.com]
    Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 7:20 AM
    To: Shelia A Bullock
    Subject: RE: [cdi_talk] Septicemia vs. sepsis

    Septicemia is just a more general term than bacteremia and by definition is more serious. The MedlinePlus Medical Dictionary defines septicemia as
  • Shelia, can you provide a cite for your information? I just looked up septicemia in ICD-10 and it codes out to A41.9, sepsis unspecified, while bacteremia is R78.81.

    Renee


    Linda Renee Brown, RN, CCRN, CCDS
    Certified Clinical Documentation Specialist
    Banner Good Samaritan Medical Center
  • edited May 2016
    Listened to Dr. Haik and Gloryanne Bryant yesterday on an AHIMA presentation on managing the query process (which was great) and Dr. Haik made the comment that septicemia would code to bacteremia in ICD-10.
    .
    Shelia

  • edited May 2016
    That is really how it should be. Now Bacteremia as a principle codes to septicemia and that is really not right. When I first became a cdi nurse this was a topic of many discussions with the coders.


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