AHIMA survey

Unknown
edited May 2016 in CDI Talk Archive
I am feeling kind of angry right now and needed to vent - I received a request from my director to complete a survey for AHIMA for the following:

AHIMA is developing a new specialty certification exam in clinical documentation improvement. To develop the new credential, AHIMA is undertaking a job analysis to most accurately determine the work performed by Clinical Documentation Improvement professionals. The results of the study will be used to determine the Clinical Documentation Improvement credential test blueprint.

First off it was a big pain in the neck to complete and here was my last line in the comment box. "I am HIGHLY insulted that AHIMA is looking to develop a credentialing for CDI. ACDIS has worked diligently to develop and implement a very thorough Clinical Documentation Improvement Specialist certification program. My affiliation with ACDIS includes an admiration for their collaboration with AHIMA. I believe AHIMA is disrespectful instead of supporting ACDIS in their endeavor to become the premiere resource for Clinical Documentation Improvement Specialist as AHIMA is for HIM specialists."

Just my personal opinion. Curious if anyone else had experience with this survey?


Linnea Thennes, RN, BS, CCDS
Clinical Documentation Specialist
Centegra Hospital, McHenry
815. 759-8193
lthennes@centegra.com

Comments

  • judithbatesjudithbates
    edited May 2016
    Lin,
    I haven't had this experience but as a CCDS holder...I share your sentiment!!!
  • tpeytontpeyton
    edited May 2016
    I have not had experience with this survery, but I do agree and am insulted by this as well.

    Tracy M Peyton RN, CCDS
    Case Management
    Bradford Regional Medical Center
    Upper Allegany Health Systems
    116 Interstate Parkway
    Bradford, PA 16701
    814-558-0406
  • Unknown
    edited May 2016
    I agree, and I have not received the request either but am not a member of AHIMA so I suspect this is the reason.
    I wouldn't mind having credentialing from this but ACDIS is a great group and has worked so hard that I do not see the reasoning behind this.
  • sharon.colesharon.cole
    edited May 2016
    Had heard about the survey but not seen it.

    I absolutely agree with your comment at the end.
  • stacy.vaughnstacy.vaughn
    edited May 2016
    I had heard this was being created. I was also "put out" by AHIMA doing
    this. I am sure they had to know ACDIS already had one. ACDIS is not
    approved by the Centers of Excellence quite yet and AHIMA is. Therefore,
    I was worried that the AHIMA credential will be regarded better.

    I have your same sentiments.

    Stacy Vaughn, RHIT, CCS, CCDS
    Data Support Specialist/DRG Assurance
    Aurora Baycare Medical Center
    2845 Greenbrier Rd
    Green Bay, WI 54311
    Phone: (920) 288-8655
    Fax: (920) 288-3052
  • Unknown
    edited May 2016
    They have received MAGNET status recognition now and this should be recognized.
  • sharon.colesharon.cole
    edited May 2016
    Has anyone asked ACDIS what exactly this will mean to all of us who have our CCDS?
  • mary.a.dunnmary.a.dunn
    edited May 2016
    Linnea,
    I would suggest you get on the phone with ACDIS and apprise them of this cert program in progress. Perhaps the Board at ACDIS can make "official contact" with AHIMA and do some collaboration. This could pose a real problem for all those who have worked so hard to get CCDS.
  • mary.a.dunnmary.a.dunn
    edited May 2016
    Linnea,
    If you call ACDIS, please let us all know what response you get from them so we are all aware of the most up to date information on this
    hot issue.
  • david.smithdavid.smith
    edited May 2016
    Unfortunately, I feel this is a necessary action on AHIMA's behalf to
    lend some credence to the fact that HIM professionals are more than
    qualified to hold CDI positions. While the credential through ACIDS is
    wonderful, there is a widespread feeling that only people from a nursing
    background are equipped to perform the CDI duties (just check some job
    postings). Also, I think the AHIMA membership has been questioning when
    AHIMA would finally get something going around the CDI initiative. I
    don't think it is a shot at ACDIS or anyone credentialed through ACDIS,
    but moreover an attempt to support their membership and answer a growing
    concern from HIM professionals.



    Ultimately, it will probably be personal decision as to which
    organization you seek credentialing through. This is already the case in
    the coding field with AHIMA and AAPC both offering a variety of
    credentials. If it follows that template, then both credentials will be
    recognized as industry standards to demonstrate expertise in CDI.
  • dbutlerdbutler
    edited May 2016
    I have forwarded Linnea's initial post to Brian and Melissa to make sure they are aware.

    I do know that both Brian and Melissa keep an eye periodically on the posts in CDI Talk, but are usually busy with other things. Hopefully they can keep us up to date on any work ACDIS is or will do on this topic. I am fairly certain they will communicate with the board.

    Thanks Linnea for the head's up. I do tend to agree with the general sentiment. Would really like to see a collaborative approach from AHIMA to work with ACDIS on CCDS rather than (apparently) set out to establish a separate credential. Makes sense to me that CDI is sufficiently different of a role to be recognized as such.

    Don

    Donald A. Butler, RN, BSN
    Manager, Clinical Documentation
    PCMH, Greenville NC
    dbutler@pcmh.com
  • dbutlerdbutler
    edited May 2016
    Though I certainly can see where that perception might come from, I strongly disagree with it!
    Some of the VERY BEST I've had the pleasure to work with have been CDS's from a coding background.

    I suspect one of the strong drivers of the preponderance of nursing in CDI is simple market mechanics -- there are many, many more nurses than coding professionals, and at a time when there is a real shortage of coding professionals available in the market place (I've tried recruiting a coding professional without success).

    Wouldn't it meet the same need for support of the HIMS profession if AHIMA might work with ACDIS to co-sponsor a credential instead of developing a separate credential that risks splitting the CDI role / profession? At first glance that would be a true win for all parties!

    There is enough 'grey' around standards, expectations, guidance, etc. without running the risk of further muddying of the waters. The work AHIMA has done on query guidelines as well as the CDI guideline (and especially receptiveness to feedback specifically in the aspect of the query guidance) has been most appreciated and I personally look forward to more contributions in the realm of CDI.

    Don

    Donald A. Butler, RN, BSN
    Manager, Clinical Documentation
    PCMH, Greenville NC
    dbutler@pcmh.com
  • mary.a.dunnmary.a.dunn
    edited May 2016
    Well said Don. Thanks for your insights.
  • dallend@einstein.edudallend@einstein.edu
    edited May 2016
    I know there ia a Philadelphia chapter of CDI specialists that decided several years ago to affiliate themselves with AHIMA vs ACDIS. I attended a meeting when that decision was made and decided not to attend their meetings any longer. I had the impression there were other local groups who made the same decision. I guess they are looking for their credentials too.
  • Unknown
    edited May 2016
    I apologize if I somehow implied that opinion in my original email, certainly not a reflection of my true value system. I have been associated with ACDIS since its inception; my experience has never demonstrated an RN vs. Coder bias. What I do believe is that CDI is still a relatively new specialty and too many different sources providing a "certification of competence" only dilutes our validity.

    Thanks - Linnea
  • bmurphy@hcpro.combmurphy@hcpro.com
    edited May 2016
    Hi everyone, I wanted to address this thread and hopefully ease a few fears.

    ACDIS has always had a collaborative relationship with AHIMA. We stand behind their practice briefs and have had AHIMA representation at our national conference. We continue to hold them in the highest regard. We are pursuing ongoing discussion with them regarding their certification, and in other ways to promote collaboration between our associations.

    That said, we stand firmly behind our work on the CCDS credential. The CCDS has been deemed a valid certification by the ANCC and may be used when applying for Magnet certification. We are in the process of formalizing our policies and procedures for national accreditation. We've received numerous requests for verification by employers. I think our committee has done a wonderful job in addressing a need in the healthcare industry for a credential developed for CDI specialists, by CDI specialists.

    There is precedent for more than one certification in a healthcare space (see the AAPC and AHIMA as a prime example, case management, etc.). Having one certification does not invalidate another.

    I hope this answers some of your concerns,
    Brian


    Brian Murphy
  • paxnerospaxneros
    edited May 2016
    Haven't filled out the survey but was notified regarding my input for the new credentialing and test.

    I feel a bit differently about it. I wish AHIMA had had their act together when a certification was being talked about. I may have gone the HIM route as my credentials are through AHIMA.

    Now I'm not sure if I will sit for their certification or not. I'm not excited about acquiring them both - every certification comes with more CEUs and a $$$ tag.

    Don't misunderstand, I'm very proud of my ACDIS credential. But had there been a certification through AHIMA I may have considered that first.

    Just for information, there is also another Clinical Documentation Certification - the C-CDI. ACDIS is not the only entity which Certifies Clinical Documentation Specialists - but as you said - they are the premiere resource. I've seen a couple of people on this board with the C- CDI credential.

    My thought is that AHIMA is coming in a little late to the party because they consider themselves the premiere resource of all things related to Health Information - which all goes back to documentation in that record. They don't want to lose control of that area. :)

    NBrunson, RHIA, CCDS
  • david.smithdavid.smith
    edited May 2016
    I agree (especially coming from a HIM background :) I think a joint
    venture would be great idea since often employers start to look for the
    credential and related experience as opposed to strictly the degree
    held.
  • david.smithdavid.smith
    edited May 2016
    No, not at all...I was speaking more to the perception that exists in
    the general healthcare community related to the qualifications of CDI
    specialist. I don't even know if it is a true bias or a misunderstanding
    of the skill set of HIM professionals.
  • bmurphy@hcpro.combmurphy@hcpro.com
    edited May 2016
    Just to add on to the conversation, when we created ACDIS and developed
    the CCDS certification, we did so by drawing upon boards comprised of a
    multidisciplinary group of professionals.


    The ACDIS membership is 75-80% RNs, but we do have a number of very
    qualified, experienced, and proficient CDI specialists who possess the
    RHIA and/or CCS credential. Some of them are on our advisory board.
    Others are MDs, and one of our CCDS certification board members has her
    CPHQ.



    Our goal in the end was to create an association for CDI specialists,
    regardless of their background.


    Brian Murphy | Director, Association of Clinical Documentation
    Improvement Specialists
    ACDIS | 75 Sylvan Street, Suite A-101, Danvers, MA 01923
    P 781-639-1872, ext. 3216 | F 800/639-8511 | www.hcpro.com/acdis


  • sharon.colesharon.cole
    edited May 2016
    It's rather interesting that per a recent thread, many of the RNs (myself included) plan to work towards their CCS. To me, that says that both specialties are equally important and that many of us realize it. :)
  • david.smithdavid.smith
    edited May 2016
    Right, an RN with a CCS would probably make you even more marketable and
    then add a CCDS to that ....you're golden! I think the problem is that
    someone with a RHIT/RHIT/CCS and not an RN is often excluded from the
    conversation. I know this is not everywhere and there are plenty of HIM
    professionals in CDI, but I have read countless job ads that have "RN"
    as required with no mention of HIM credentials. Additionally, the CCDS
    credential is secondary to the RN requirement (ie CCDS a plus) I suppose
    once the CDI credential(s) itself speaks to the qualification of the
    individual, then your professional background may not be the driving
    force but it is easy to see where AHIMA is coming from. Personally, I
    have been wondering why they haven't moved on this much sooner since
    they have been working on other CDI topics. Just late to the party I
    guess. I agree with a previous comment that one credential doesn't
    devalue the other, but it does lead to some confusion and loss of
    clarity in the field.
  • tiffany_susantiffany_susan
    edited May 2016
    Unbelievable!!!!
    Thank You,
    Susan Tiffany RN, CCDS
    Supervisor Clinical Documentation Program
    Guthrie Healthcare System
    phone: 570-887-6094
    fax: 570-887-6768
    email: tiffany_susan@guthrie.org
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
    didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
    away from safe harbor.Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
    Discover." Mark Twain
  • Unknown
    edited May 2016
    I mostly agree with the post below. My experience has been that a few
    (emphasis on few) of the CDI Coding Department Managers out there-those
    under the Coding Department (as opposed to Case Mgt or finance) have a
    competitive issue with Nursing entering a field they feel is for Coders.
    Coders are well very educated professionals and yes just as capable of
    doing the CDI job but I do think that RN's have a better grasp on the
    Clinical end. And conversely, coders have a better grasp on the coding
    end. Bottom line is that we all need to work and learn together (ACDIS
    and AHIMA, nurses and coders) to continue to grow and become better CDI
    Professionals so that the PROFESSION is ultimately recognized on its
    own. There should be only cooperation between us all with as much
    mentoring as possible. My own experience at work is that I learn a lot
    more from the Coders than they do from me! I am lucky enough to have a
    good and mentoring relationship with our Coders.

    I am a member of AHIMA and ACDIS as well as president of the Florida
    Chapter of ACDIS and find them both to be a wealth of information. Our
    meetings are a mix of speakers from Coding, MD's, Nurses, Denials/RACS
    etc. We all have something to learn from each other. Competing is a
    waste of precious time.


    I do not feel that the AHIMA credental will lessen the CCDS credential
    but hopefully will serve as another avenue for all of us to reach our
    potential


    Virginia Bailey RN, CCDS
  • Unknown
    edited May 2016
    I love it! "Competing is a waste of time!"
  • fishdl@shands.ufl.edufishdl@shands.ufl.edu
    edited May 2016
    Beautifully stated Virginia - couldn't agree more!!
  • catladyrncatladyrn
    edited May 2016
    I had heard that AHIMA was coming out with their own certification, but since I don't belong to AHIMA, I didn't receive a survey. I do know someone who is working on the project with AHIMA. It will be interesting to see what they choose as eligibility for certification. I'm actually more surprised that ANCC, which never met a dollar they wouldn't snatch, hasn't tried to co-opt the certification process, given that most of us are nurses.

    The C-CDI is a joke; if you are willing to pay for their seminar, you can get "certified" even if you've never worked a day as a CDS.

    Renee


    Linda Renee Brown, RN, CCRN, CCDS
    Certified Clinical Documentation Specialist
    Banner Good Samaritan Medical Center
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