CDI position requirements

shumeshume
in CDI Talk Archive
I had been working as a CDIS for the past 3 yrs. Another corporation
recently took over the hospital and I was released from the position due
to not holding a current RN license or a current license to practice
podiatry. I was in practice about 12 yrs ago and had to sell due to
wrist and back injuries from an accident and ended up doing outpt coding
work and then CDI work . I was also a PA prior to practicing podiatry
so it was felt at the hospital that I was qualified for the work. So I
have been offered a position back doing outpt coding which is not very
challenging and of course a much lower pay scale.



My question is if it is becoming the norm to require an active RN
license to hold the CDI position ?



Thanks,



Sheila Hume

Comments

  • sharon.cooper@owensborohealth.orgsharon.cooper@owensborohealth.org
    edited May 2016
    I'm not sure about the 'norm' Sheila, but we do require an active RN license in the CDS/CDI positions at our facility.

  • sharon.cooper@owensborohealth.orgsharon.cooper@owensborohealth.org
    edited May 2016
    I'm not sure about the 'norm' Sheila, but we do require an active RN license in the CDS/CDI positions at our facility.

    (sorry, I forgot to sign)

    Sharon Cooper, RN-BC, CCS, CCDS, CDIP, CHTS-CP
    AHIMA-Approved ICD-10-CM/PCS Trainer/Ambassador
    Manager Clinical Documentation/Appeals

    sharon.cooper@owensborohealth.org
    (270) 417-4612 Office
    (270) 316-9088 Cell
    (270) 417-4609 Fax

    Owensboro Health Regional Hospital
    P.O. Box 20007
    Owensboro, KY 42304-0007

  • dwalker2dwalker2
    edited May 2016
    It does seem to be the trend to use RN's to perform the function of CDIS. From what we experienced at our facility the reason for this is that they have the clinical knowledge to scrutinize the chart. Some places have used coders with no clinical background and my understanding is that this was not the best case scenario. In your case, you clearly have the clinical knowledge and that is what should matter.

    Overall, the industry does seem to use mostly RN's for this position with the expectation that they keep up with their licensure. If you PA license is still valid this should be more than enough to perform the role of CDIS.

    Dana Walker, RN BSN
    Cone Health | Health Information Managment * Alamance Regional
    Clinical Documentation Specialist
    Direct Dial: 336.586.3565 | Fax: 336.538.7927
    Website: conehealth.com


  • don.cdi.rn@gmail.comdon.cdi.rn@gmail.com
    edited May 2016
    We do require an active license for those whose professional background is nursing.
    For HIMS professionals (1/4 to 1/3 of CDS's), we'd require RHIA/RHIT/CCS.

    I do know of a very small number with other backgrounds -- a couple of RT's, a couple of LPN/LVN's. Couldn't tell you if those require an active license.

    There are a couple of places that are using Foreign Medical Graduates for the concurrent CDS role. Don't know what is required of them. A recent Journal focused on such a program, might be able to reach out for more information (April 2014).

    Don
    (Hi Sheila)

    Donald A. Butler, RN, BSN
    Manager, Clinical Documentation Advisor Program
    Vidant Health, Greenville NC
    DButler@vidanthealth.com ( mailto:mDButler@vidanthealth.com )


  • shumeshume
    edited May 2016
    Thanks ! I let my PA cert expire when I was in med school since no way
    to keep up w/ that and school at same time....who would have thought !



  • shumeshume
    edited May 2016
    Thanks Don ....

  • ggoodman@virginiahospitalcenter.comggoodman@virginiahospitalcenter.com
    edited May 2016
    Sheila,
    So sorry to hear about this!
    I also do not have an RN license.
    I actually have a Masters Degree in Social Work and worked in our hospital's ICU before being offered my current CDI position when our program was just beginning.
    I have been doing CDI work for 5 years now, and really enjoy it.
    While I don't have a "license" I did get the CCDS certificate to validate my expertise in this field.
    While it does seem that most CDI specialists are RNS, I truly feel that with proper training CDI specialists from different backgrounds have the ability to bring their own unique skills to the position.
    Good luck with deciding your next step.
    Greta

  • evanspx@sutterhealth.orgevanspx@sutterhealth.org
    edited May 2016
    I am an RHIA, CCDS, CCS-P, CCS, and I am a Regional Director of Quality. Reading sample of job postings, many do require an RN license for practice - obviously, I do not agree.

    I do not want to start another line of challenging messages regarding RN versus XXXX for CDI. But, I do see the RN training (and others) as excellent background for this type of work. I echo the previous comment that CCDS or CDIP indicate achievement of baseline level of accomplishment.




    Paul Evans, RHIA, CCS, CCS-P, CCDS

    Manager, Regional Clinical Documentation & Coding Integrity
    Sutter West Bay
    633 Folsom St., 7th Floor, Office 7-044
    San Francisco, CA 94107
    Cell: 415.412.9421

    evanspx@sutterhealth.org

  • Snook@fmchealth.orgSnook@fmchealth.org
    edited May 2016
    Here where I work the two CDI positions are held by RN's.

    Mary L. Snook RN-BC CDI
    Fairfield Medical Center
    401 N. Ewing St.
    Lancaster, Ohio 43130
    740-689-4443


  • evanspx@sutterhealth.orgevanspx@sutterhealth.org
    edited May 2016
    Bear in mind, however, that some coders (those of us that earned either a BS or AS at a university) do have 'clinical knowledge', given we are required to take a variety of clinical courses as part of a formal education. There is a wide variety of education among those that perform coding functions...please, be careful with the thought that 'coders, as a general rule, have no clinical knowledge'.

    As with nursing, there are levels of training, education, and ability within the coding profession. There are people labeling themselves as coders merely because they completed a course in billing at a Community College.

    Again, I do not wish to reignite the coders versus nursing flame wars...but, many of the general thoughts expressed on this site about the knowledge, training, and education of 'coders' as a group, and a general statement, are patently false.

    I have, as an RHIA, been performing advanced CDI practice for over 25 years and I have completed 7 years of formal university training applicable to CDI. I took many of my clinical courses (in the same room) as students in Pre-Med, PT, and RN programs, and the courses were taught by physicians. I did not take 'only' a course in terminology, nor did I take an 'easier' version of any of my clinical courses.


    The art and science of query (and the required skills and training) is not a new trend within the industry; rather, skilled and advanced coders have a performed this line of work for several decades. Lacking the groundwork set by 'coders' to create an environment whereby a query is permitted, there would be no CCDS credential today. (At a point in history, AHIMA had to testify before Congress in order to preserve the 'right' to issue a compliant query).

    The value of coding and CDI work is only recently becoming recognized with the health care environment for the value that accuracy data brings to the table....there is room for all, and all that are qualified should be allowed to participate.

    I am thankful that I work for a groups of physicians that have treated me fairly and have taken the time to appreciate the education, training, and passion I bring to my profession.


    Paul Evans, RHIA, CCS, CCS-P, CCDS

    Manager, Regional Clinical Documentation & Coding Integrity
    Sutter West Bay
    633 Folsom St., 7th Floor, Office 7-044
    San Francisco, CA 94107
    Cell: 415.412.9421

    evanspx@sutterhealth.org

  • jrileyjriley
    edited May 2016
    Hi all.

    CDI staff need a depth of knowledge and experience that takes training, experience, and a certain mindset to master. At my two facilities, CDI staff require EITHER an RN with current license and a minimum of 2 years of floor experience OR an AHIMA inpatient coding credential with an AS or health-related BS and a minimum of 2 years of hospital inpatient coding experience. Seasoned inpatient coders generally have developed excellent query skills, as they have queried providers long before CDI became a recognized profession. In addition, in both associate's and bachelor's programs, they train alongside future nurses in core clinical classes including A&P, pathophysiology and pharmacology, so they possess sound clinical knowledge to support their coding skills. It's interesting and challenging managing both coding and CDI, but I have seen increasing respect and decreasing animosity over time as they learn to depend on one another's expertise to accomplish the goal of optimal documentation and coding.


    Judy Riley, RHIT, CCS, CPC
    LRGHealthcare
    Manager, Coding and Clinical Documentation Integrity
    x 3315


  • cnolan@swgeneral.comcnolan@swgeneral.com
    edited May 2016
    Very well said!

  • rmhosler1rmhosler1
    edited May 2016
    Same here in michigan.
    Mary


  • sharon.cooper@owensborohealth.orgsharon.cooper@owensborohealth.org
    edited May 2016
    We also require other criteria, as well as having an active RN license – we require that they pass a Clinical Competency assessment; must have at least 5 years of recent acute care nursing experience (preferably in a critical care setting where they work 1:1 with physicians providing care); and they are required to obtain either a CDIP, CCDS, CCA, or CCS (or equivalent) certification within 2 ½ years of hire date. We also encourage our CDS’s to obtain their AHIMA-Approved ICD-10 trainer status, but it is not mandatory.

    Sharon Cooper, RN-BC, CCS, CCDS, CDIP, CHTS-CP
    AHIMA-Approved ICD-10-CM/PCS Trainer/Ambassador
    Manager Clinical Documentation/Appeals

    sharon.cooper@owensborohealth.org
    (270) 417-4612 Office
    (270) 316-9088 Cell
    (270) 417-4609 Fax

    Owensboro Health Regional Hospital
    P.O. Box 20007
    Owensboro, KY 42304-0007

  • carlena.forshacarlena.forsha
    edited May 2016
    Sharon,
    My facility also requires passing a competency assessment, active RN license and 5 years acute care experience. We do not require certification or additional training however I believe it is important to pursue those. Does your facility provide funding for the AHIMA ICD 10 trainer status to assist employees who wish to receive this training??

    Carlena Forsha MSHCA, BSN, RN, CCDS
    Clinical Documentation Improvement Manager
    John C. Lincoln NM 602-870-6060 x 3971
    [MAP Award for High Performance Winner Logo 2014]



  • sharon.cooper@owensborohealth.orgsharon.cooper@owensborohealth.org
    edited May 2016
    Carlena,

    Yes, the hospital will pay for ICD-10 training expenses (we are lucky!).
    I have only had 2 CDS's (out of our 7) that have opted to pursue.

    Sharon

    Sharon Cooper, RN-BC, CCS, CCDS, CDIP, CHTS-CP
    AHIMA-Approved ICD-10-CM/PCS Trainer/Ambassador
    Manager Clinical Documentation

    Owensboro Health
    P.O. Box 20007
    Owensboro, KY 42304

    Sharon.cooper@owensborohealth.org
    Office: (270) 417-4612
    Cell: (270) 316-9088
    Fax: (270) 417-4609

  • kerryseekircherkerryseekircher
    edited May 2016
    Does anyone have a competency assessment-or a portion of one that they would be willing to share? I have developed case studies and compliance testing for new hires with experience, but still struggle how to validate clinical knowledge, etc... for candidates without previous CDI experience.
    I see many of you have posted that you require passing an assessment, so I'm just wondering what kind of questions you are asking.
    Thanks for any info you can share.
    Kerry

    Kerry Seekircher, RN, BS, CCDS, CDIP
    Clinical Documentation Specialist Supervisor
    Northern Westchester Hospital
    400 East Main Street
    Mount Kisco, NY 10549
    Email: kseekircher@nwhc.net
    Phone: 914-666-1243
    Fax: 914-666-1013

  • lconaway@altoonaregional.orglconaway@altoonaregional.org
    edited May 2016

    Hi Kerry. I have a clinical competency exam that we used during our CDS hi=
    ring process. It's mostly a series of open ended questions that tests crit=
    ical thinking skills and clinical knowledge. Keep in mind, we have had the=
    same CDS nurses for nearly 10 years so not sure if some of the scenarios m=
    ight need a little updating. :)





    LeeAnn Cheung-Conaway RN III, CCRN, CCDS

    UPMC Altoona, Quality Management Dept.

    Clinical Documentation Specialist - Coordinator

    Office 814-889-3313

    Cell 814-502-6772

    Fax 814-889-3766


  • jrileyjriley
    edited May 2016
    This is very helpful LeeAnn. Thanks very much for sharing.

    Judy

    Judy Riley
    Coding/CDI Mgr
    x 3315


  • kerryseekircherkerryseekircher
    edited May 2016
    Thank you-this is so great!

    Kerry Seekircher, RN, BS, CCDS, CDIP

    Clinical Documentation Specialist Supervisor

    Northern Westchester Hospital

    400 East Main Street

    Mount Kisco, NY 10549

    Email: kseekircher@nwhc.net

    Phone: 914-666-1243

    Fax: 914-666-1013



  • lconaway@altoonaregional.orglconaway@altoonaregional.org
    edited May 2016
    Sure! Glad it was helpful.

    LeeAnn Cheung-Conaway RN III, CCRN, CCDS
    UPMC Altoona, Quality Management Dept.
    Clinical Documentation Specialist - Coordinator

  • lconaway@altoonaregional.orglconaway@altoonaregional.org
    edited May 2016
    Hi Ellen. Are you able to see my attachment on my response to Kerry? I attached the clinical questions we use to assess potential hires. If not, let me know and I can email it to you personally.


  • evanspx@sutterhealth.orgevanspx@sutterhealth.org
    edited May 2016
    Would also appreciate a copy, please

    evanspx@sutterhealth.org



    Paul Evans, RHIA, CCS, CCS-P, CCDS

    Manager, Regional Clinical Documentation & Coding Integrity
    Sutter West Bay
    633 Folsom St., 7th Floor, Office 7-044
    San Francisco, CA 94107
    Cell: 415.412.9421

    evanspx@sutterhealth.org



  • deanne_wilkdeanne_wilk
    edited May 2016
    I have one Kerry

  • dallend@einstein.edudallend@einstein.edu
    edited May 2016
    HI,
    I am attaching a quiz that I have used as part of my orientation. It is usually administered close to the end of the orientation. If there are issues they can be addressed immediately.

    Debby



    Deborah A Dallen,RN, CCDS
    Supervisor
    Clinical Documentation Improvement
    Einstein Medical Center
    Health Information Management
    Phila PA 19141
    215-456-8902
    dallend@einstein.edu
  • kerryseekircherkerryseekircher
    edited May 2016

    Another great tool-thank you for sharing.
    I've attached a few short exercises that I have developed/used--recently in=
    interviewing experienced candidates, but also used throughout our CDI fell=
    owship. Nothing fancy, but I've found them helpful: )


    Kerry Seekircher, RN, BS, CCDS, CDIP
    Clinical Documentation Specialist Supervisor
    Northern Westchester Hospital
    400 East Main Street
    Mount Kisco, NY 10549
    Email: kseekircher@nwhc.net
    Phone: 914-666-1243
    Fax: 914-666-1013

  • bobbie.wright@libertyhospital.orgbobbie.wright@libertyhospital.org
    https://forums.acdis.org/discussion/comment/12012#Comment_12012
    https://forums.acdis.org/discussion/comment/12027#Comment_12027
    https://forums.acdis.org/discussion/comment/12025#Comment_12025


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