Just passed the CDIP!
I crossed over to the dark side. I thought it was much harder than the CCDS, but I still finished in 45 minutes. A lot of theoretical questions that didn't seem to have much relation to practice.
Renee
Linda Renee Brown, RN, CCRN, CCDS, CDIP
Senior Consultant, CDI/Nursing
Jacobus Consulting, Inc.
Renee
Linda Renee Brown, RN, CCRN, CCDS, CDIP
Senior Consultant, CDI/Nursing
Jacobus Consulting, Inc.
Comments
Congratulations!
The Dark Side, huh...? (We have chocolate
NBrunson, RHIA,CDIP,CCDS
Sandy Beatty
Katy Good, RN, BSN, CCDS, CCS
Clinical Documentation Program Coordinator
AHIMA Approved ICD-10CM/PCS Trainer
Flagstaff Medical Center
Kathryn.Good@nahealth.com
Cell: 928.814.9404
Taking both certifications within about 6 months of each other, I can agree that there were theoretical questions; while they may seem to have little relation at first to actual practice, I have been able to use some of the principles as I build a program where there was none.
Kindest Regards,
Mark
Mark N. Dominesey, RN, BSN, MBA, CCDS, CDIP
Clinical Documentation Excellence
Sr. Clinical Documentation Improvement Specialist
Sibley Memorial Hospital
Information Technology
5255 Loughboro Rd NW
Washington DC, 20016-2695
W: 202.660.6782
F: 202.537.4477
mdominesey@sibley.org
http://www.sibley.org
Robert
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"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
practical need for 'dual-certification' - CCDS AND CDIP?
There are an 'awful lot' of apparently worthy credentials one can test
for and hold that are seem to be relevant for anyone working in coding,
compliance, and documentation integrity.
My employer did not, and will not, pay me to test for any of the four
credentials I have earned - nor will my employer pay me to keep my CE
current for any of my credentials.
My HR states the CCDS or CDIP is 'preferred', but not mandatory - my HR
does not offer any bonus if one holds the CCDS or CDIP, but does require
a BS in a related field, such as RN or RHIA. Having cited all of
these factors, I have decided I have 'enough' credentials for the market
place. It is $$ to keep current with any credential.
It will be interesting to see how the advent of the new CDI credential
now offered by AHIMA affects the market place?
Paul Evans, RHIA, CCS, CCS-P, CCDS
Supervisor, Clinical Documentation Integrity, Quality Department
California Pacific Medical Center
2351 Clay #243
San Francisco, CA 94115
Cell: 415.637.9002
Fax: 415.600.1325
Ofc: 415.600.3739
evanspx@sutterhealth.org
I have my RN license plus the CPC and CCDS certification. With my job role some CEU's are mandatory for me thru the corporation. I do not receive 100% of CEU's needed this way. There is no assistance ($) offered in maintaining the certifications.
I now feel qualified for the position (when I started did not feel this qualified) and do not feel inclined to pursue more certifications in the same lines. I started as a nurse, I had taken the AAPC coding class and was preparing to sit for the certification at the time of hire. That was the reason I was chosen - RN and some coding knowledge. Just through the years my knowledge base has greatly increased thru daily working.
The coders are allotted 'education' time and all the CEU's they needed are obtained this way. They do have to pay the AHIMA fees themselves though.
Charlene Thiry RN, BSN, CPC, CCDS
Clinical Documentation Specialist
Quality Resources
Menorah Medical Center
In my case, the hospital does offer a small raise (&0.75/hr) for certain certifications (like CCRN and such). My Director had me write up a little blurb about the CCDS and went to the ed-department to ask if it qualified. They approved it. One of the reasons I was able to justify it is that the CCDS now qualifies to be submitted in application for Magnet status. We have not decided if we will pursue Magnet status or not, but it was just another little something I brought to the conversation that they liked. I feel like it added a little cred to my request.
Anyways, because it was accepted by the ed dept, they paid for the exam and the small raise. I will be responsible for CEU's and such. Also, they do pay for my ACDIS membership (but not my co-workers).
However, the CCS was all on me. I doubt I will pursue more credentials. Never say never though....
Katy Good, RN, BSN, CCDS, CCS
Clinical Documentation Program Coordinator
AHIMA Approved ICD-10CM/PCS Trainer
Flagstaff Medical Center
Kathryn.Good@nahealth.com
Cell: 928.814.9404
Honestly it would be wonderful if credentials were not be required- it
should be based on experience and knowledge. However, credentialing
provides that initial basis that satisfies the experience and knowledge
requirements- in most circumstances. It does indicate you have gone an
extra inch or two beyond the necessary requirements.
I'm in the same boat w/you Paul- no one helps me maintain my CEUs or
certifications. Its ALL out - of- pocket for me. (I added it up a month
ago and since January I have spent $1475 on CEUs.) No bonus is offered, or
certification pay - really no incentive other than my own professional
goals. And being an HIM professional it is more difficult to obtain those
CEU's because some are only recognized by one governing body or the other.
Thank goodness AHIMA and ACDIS are trying to work together by recognizing
each other's CEUs.
I suppose it is up to the individual and the professional climate where they
work and live (And whether or not they can continue to fund these
endeavors) as to how many letters they need behind their name.
NBrunson, RHIA, CDIP, CCDS
perhaps I could employ this strategy with my HR department? They are
very tight with our funds, and this makes it difficult to recruit
qualified people. As I work in San Francisco, this places me at a
disadvantage.
Thanks..Paul
Paul Evans, RHIA, CCS, CCS-P, CCDS
Supervisor, Clinical Documentation Integrity, Quality Department
California Pacific Medical Center
2351 Clay #243
San Francisco, CA 94115
Cell: 415.637.9002
Fax: 415.600.1325
Ofc: 415.600.3739
evanspx@sutterhealth.org
should be a requirement for CDI activity - we can quibble about which is
'best', but I do believe credentials of some type are a basic
requirement in any profession - I would not even think about apply for
a coding job w/o my coding credentials, for instance.
Paul Evans, RHIA, CCS, CCS-P, CCDS
Supervisor, Clinical Documentation Integrity, Quality Department
California Pacific Medical Center
2351 Clay #243
San Francisco, CA 94115
Cell: 415.637.9002
Fax: 415.600.1325
Ofc: 415.600.3739
evanspx@sutterhealth.org
Do you think credentialing should be a requirement for hire OR a requirement within a span of time after hire?
Currently there are not an over abundance of 'CCDS' specialists available for hire.
Charlene Thiry RN, BSN, CPC, CCDS
Clinical Documentation Specialist
Quality Resources
Menorah Medical Center
Magnet status? Really? Very interesting as our facility is "all about"
this right now!
NBrunson, RHIA, CDIP, CCDS
Dorie Douthit, RHIT,CCS
I know I'm not Paul, but thought I'd throw my answer in:). We have not found anyone already with the CCDs credential so make it a requirement to achieve this after the first year or two. We require nurses to have at least 5 years' experience in the inpatient setting and prefer a BSN; and for coding professionals RHIT, CCS, or RHIA. The coders are much harder to find than nurses.
Sharon Cole, RN, CCDS
Providence Health Center
Case Management Dept
254.751.4256
srcole@phn-waco.org
think we would be able to recruit - at least not currently. Despite
the fact we have over 1,200 beds, we only have 3 authorized CDI
positions, and that includes me.
At the onset of the program, none of us held the CCDS credential, but
now all of us hold the CCDS credential.
Paul Evans, RHIA, CCS, CCS-P, CCDS
Supervisor, Clinical Documentation Integrity, Quality Department
California Pacific Medical Center
2351 Clay #243
San Francisco, CA 94115
Cell: 415.637.9002
Fax: 415.600.1325
Ofc: 415.600.3739
evanspx@sutterhealth.org
I will amend my comment w/an agreement that Credentials should be a
prerequisite for obtaining a job a job w/in the profession. My point was
sometimes additional credentialing becomes too much of the focus (and
divisive) and knowledge/experience falls by the wayside.
We require RHIA, RHIT, CCS, RN, LPN to acquire the position. At the time of
interview we tell potential candidates a certification will be required in
due time. Due time depending on their hiring credential and the
requirements that need to be met to sit for an exam.
- Norma
employment. I imagine we now may make the same statement regarding
the CDIP credential.
As a supervisor, my quibble is making either a 'requirement', but NOT
offering to pay the employee for the acquisition and maintenance - this
does not seem fair, and I am losing this battle with management. (I am
sure we help our MD staff immensely regarding credentials, and the CDI
professionals deserve the same, as does any professional).
Paul Evans, RHIA, CCS, CCS-P, CCDS
Supervisor, Clinical Documentation Integrity, Quality Department
California Pacific Medical Center
2351 Clay #243
San Francisco, CA 94115
Cell: 415.637.9002
Fax: 415.600.1325
Ofc: 415.600.3739
evanspx@sutterhealth.org
Paul
Paul Evans, RHIA, CCS, CCS-P, CCDS
Supervisor, Clinical Documentation Integrity, Quality Department
California Pacific Medical Center
2351 Clay #243
San Francisco, CA 94115
Cell: 415.637.9002
Fax: 415.600.1325
Ofc: 415.600.3739
evanspx@sutterhealth.org
If you have a good clinical documentation specialist and for whatever reason does not get a certification, then what?
This scenario probably has not happened - as I have observed, an individual either loves the job and goes all out or does not even like it and leaves within 1-2 years.
And Paul, it sounds like your administrative support is thin, just like a lot of us.
Charlene Thiry RN, BSN, CPC, CCDS
Clinical Documentation Specialist
Quality Resources
Sharon Cole, RN, CCDS
Providence Health Center
Case Management Dept
254.751.4256
srcole@phn-waco.org
That depends on your HR Dept. Policies and Procs. I know w/Coding
credentials (if required) if a candidate fails it can result in termination.
NBrunson, RHIA,CDIP,CCDS
I also echo what Paul wrote that a credential is essential for the job, does not mean that someone cannot start a job without one, get trained and then get the credential, because in our field, that's the way it works.
But the expectation that a CDI person have one or the other credential at 2 years is certainly appropriate.
Mark
Mark N. Dominesey, RN, BSN, MBA, CCDS, CDIP
Clinical Documentation Excellence
Sr. Clinical Documentation Improvement Specialist
Sibley Memorial Hospital
Information Technology
5255 Loughboro Rd NW
Washington DC, 20016-2695
W: 202.660.6782
F: 202.537.4477
mdominesey@sibley.org
[cid:image001.gif@01CD47CF.783FEC70]
http://www.sibley.org
For those who are not already CDI credentialed, I envision setting up my own policy this way:
· At hire: have at least an associates AND a credential of CCS, RN, RHIT, RHIA, LPN, RRT etc
· At 1 year: have at least 10 demonstrable CEUs related to CDI, or have earned the CCDS,
· At 2 years: have earned CCDS or CDIP.
· If failed to get CDI certification at 2 years, then they get the “unadvertised grace period”, essentially a 6 month performance improvement plan, with a 3 month progress review. They are put on notice that at the end of that 6 months with no certification earned, they are terminated for cause.
Some will not like it, but if the expectations are detailed at the beginning, then should have no problem with buy in and the generous 2 year certification path. We have to remember that other career fields have similar requirements, so an expectation to be certified is not out of the norm.
Mark
Mark N. Dominesey, RN, BSN, MBA, CCDS, CDIP
Clinical Documentation Excellence
Sr. Clinical Documentation Improvement Specialist
Sibley Memorial Hospital
Information Technology
5255 Loughboro Rd NW
Washington DC, 20016-2695
W: 202.660.6782
F: 202.537.4477
mdominesey@sibley.org
[cid:image001.gif@01CD47D9.65282EE0]
http://www.sibley.org
I have my CCDS. I am not planning on obtaining any other certification credentials. Certification is not mandated at this time.
Debby Dallen,RN
Clinical Documentation Coordinator
Albert Einstein Medical Center
Phila PA 19141
One of the criteria has to do with nursing holding specialized certificates. They only accept certain certificates for this portion. The CCDS was recently added and can be reported as part of this.
Like I said, my hospital is not currently working toward Magnet status. However, the fact that it is accepted by Magnet I think gives the credential a little more weight. As we are discussing, there are a million credentialing options out there. The people I took this to have no clue about CDI or the CCDS so I think it made it more "legit" to them.
This HcPRo link states that it is now included and has the link to the Magnet website.
http://www.hcpro.com/acdis/certification.cfm
Katy Good, RN, BSN, CCDS, CCS
Clinical Documentation Program Coordinator
AHIMA Approved ICD-10CM/PCS Trainer
Flagstaff Medical Center
Kathryn.Good@nahealth.com
Cell: 928.814.9404
Much appreciated. Paul Evans, RHIA, CCDS, CCS, CCS-P
given. However, my facility was very happy to include it in RNs
certified. We were awarded Magnet Status December 2011. Glad it helps.
However, while my place will reimburse for the ACDIS conference, they
will not reimburse for CEU's. Not sure what happens with the coders.
I'll find out.
Donna
Donna Kent, RN, BSN, CCDS
Manager, Clinical Documentation Integrity Program
Clinical Quality and Accreditation
Torrance Memorial Medical Center
ph.:310 784-6884 fax:310 784-6899
donna.kent@tmmc.com
My AHIMA & ACDIS membership dues are also paid - but only because I am a Manager & utilize these resources to educate others.
The hospital will pay for the Coders to obtain certification, but they do not pay for recertification. They only pay recertification fees if you are Clinical (RN, Resp Therapy, PT, etc.). None of our Coders have CCDS or CDIP because they do not want the additional cost of recertifying, which is out of their own pocket.
As far as requiring certifications, it is expected that new CDS will obtain certification (CCDS, CDIP, CCA, or CCS) within 2 years of hire date. Currently we have 7 CDS's, 5 of which have their CCDS (4 just recertified & one just took exam last week & passed). 2 CDS's are not yet eligible to sit for exams. I don't really have anything specific in place to address what happens if they do not obtain (& thankfully it hasn't happened).
Sharon
Sharon Cooper, RN-BC, CCS, CCDS, CDIP
AHIMA-Approved ICD-10-CM/PCS Trainer
Owensboro Medical Health System
Manager Clinical Documentation & Appeals
P.O. Box 20007
Owensboro, KY 42304-0007
(270) 688-1277 Office
(270) 316-9088 Cell
(270) 688-2737 Fax
sharon.cooper@omhs.org
TEAM = Together Everyone Accomplishes More!
I've held the CCRN credential for 23 years, and I've always paid for my own recertifications and my own CEUs. Although I have become a master of finding free CEU sites. I get and maintain my certifications for my own personal satisfaction, not because anyone's required it. When I first earned the CCDS, I didn't even get a "congratulations" from my (then) boss. Ever.
To echo what was said above, my previous hospital did take credit for the CCDS credential when they were recertifying their magnet status.
Renee
Linda Renee Brown, RN, CCRN, CCDS, CDIP
Senior Consultant, CDI/Nursing
Jacobus Consulting, Inc.
I am a strong believer in the integrity of our credential and see the CCDS as one that demonstrates rigorous knowledge and experience in the profession of CDI. many candidates are disappointed that they must wait 2 years to sit for our exam but we must recognize that the prerequisite contributes to the value of the credential- it demonstrates the candidate is not just a good test taker but is competent and knowledgeable in the role with a scope of knowledge and experience. I try to stay away form exams that do not require any experience or pre-existing knowledge to obtain.